Comments on: Part V: Denys Turner: “Faith, Reason, and the Eucharist” http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/ Non intratur in veritatem nisi per caritatem. St. Augustine Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:47:48 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Cynthia R. Nielsen http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/comment-page-1/#comment-1522 Cynthia R. Nielsen Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:26:26 +0000 http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/#comment-1522 Hi Joel, I am very interested in the line of thought that you are developing in your comment. If you happen to have time, would you expand on what you say here, viz., "So, it would seem to me that the rational demonstrability of the existence of God could be understood in Aquinas as the effect of a prior giftedness from God towards the rational creature, in and through the Logos - even if that demonstrability is inaccessible to us as fallen"? Best wishes, Cynthia Hi Joel,

I am very interested in the line of thought that you are developing in your comment. If you happen to have time, would you expand on what you say here, viz., “So, it would seem to me that the rational demonstrability of the existence of God could be understood in Aquinas as the effect of a prior giftedness from God towards the rational creature, in and through the Logos – even if that demonstrability is inaccessible to us as fallen”?

Best wishes,
Cynthia

]]> By: garver http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/comment-page-1/#comment-1521 garver Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:14:02 +0000 http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/#comment-1521 As I recall, in the Q&A Turner said something to the effect that even if we cannot, practically speaking, rationally demonstrate the existence of God, we nonetheless must maintain that the existence of God is rationally demonstr<i>able</i>. Not sure what to make of that. I find Aquinas very complex on all these sorts of issues, the more so, the more I read of him and reflect upon it. As I read him, according to Aquinas the light of the intellect, whether natural or gracious, is a participation in the divine light and, even though this light does not present God as an object to the intellect, it does naturally order the intellect towards God and does so as a matter of giftedness, whether by creation or elevation. So, it would seem to me that the rational demonstrability of the existence of God could be understood in Aquinas as the effect of a prior giftedness from God towards the rational creature, in and through the Logos - even if that demonstrability is inaccessible to us as fallen. Consider that thought half-formed. As I recall, in the Q&A Turner said something to the effect that even if we cannot, practically speaking, rationally demonstrate the existence of God, we nonetheless must maintain that the existence of God is rationally demonstrable.

Not sure what to make of that.

I find Aquinas very complex on all these sorts of issues, the more so, the more I read of him and reflect upon it.

As I read him, according to Aquinas the light of the intellect, whether natural or gracious, is a participation in the divine light and, even though this light does not present God as an object to the intellect, it does naturally order the intellect towards God and does so as a matter of giftedness, whether by creation or elevation. So, it would seem to me that the rational demonstrability of the existence of God could be understood in Aquinas as the effect of a prior giftedness from God towards the rational creature, in and through the Logos – even if that demonstrability is inaccessible to us as fallen.

Consider that thought half-formed.

]]> By: Eric Daryl Meyer http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/comment-page-1/#comment-1511 Eric Daryl Meyer Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:59:15 +0000 http://percaritatem.com/2007/11/11/part-v-denys-turner-faith-reason-and-the-eucharist/#comment-1511 Cynthia, Thank you for sharing the hours of labor that transcription must have consumed with the rest of us. I enjoyed the lecture very much. I confess, there were a few points in his attempt to tie together music, reason, and the eucharist at which I'd be tempted to answer his final question with a few gagging gasps. Nevertheless, Turner offered some stunningly creative material, and I am sure that I will be thinking back on this for a few days. Go well, Eric Cynthia,

Thank you for sharing the hours of labor that transcription must have consumed with the rest of us. I enjoyed the lecture very much.

I confess, there were a few points in his attempt to tie together music, reason, and the eucharist at which I’d be tempted to answer his final question with a few gagging gasps. Nevertheless, Turner offered some stunningly creative material, and I am sure that I will be thinking back on this for a few days.

Go well,
Eric

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